Thread: an ARRSE moment - just like to say, without blood shed......

I tend not to post on ARRSE any more, it's not that I don't like it, I just feel when this site was created it was to try and stop the dilution of ARRSE by non-military persons and to leave it to them to get on with that camaraderie that many on here just won't get not having served.

BUT!

There are times when I really have to hold back on replying on a thread when the topic's being slanted by those 'in the know' who really are just a group of annoying people with their heads so far up their own bums, and each others that it makes my eyes bleed to read it.

But what to do when you KNOW that your opinion will be shouted down as 'only a civvy take on events' or 'you don't even post on here now' or even better 'you're just posting to support the non popular view' or my favourite 'go back to RP where you belong'

Belonging, hmmmm that sounds pretty good actually, a place I belong, where my views may differ but i know the in vogue thought police of the minute don't gang up and stomp on me without someone else adding their voice and acting as devils advocate or referee!

Anyway I digress greatly, I just thought an amnesty thread on RP were we can quote from ARRSE and give our views and opinions without fear of getting our cyber heads stomped on would maybe help to bring a wider view on the topic while also opening these boards to the greater social debates of the moment.

Beebs x

Nice one beebs!! I'm reading the thread on Wootten Bassett becoming a bit Princess Di, and not wanting to get my head caved in i've kept schtum but....

a) i'm torn on the subject of unconnected people travelling to repats. It's nice for people to show support but risks WB turning into a circus! Will all those people be attending Remembrance Day services? I think not!

b) Media....aaaargh! if they absolutely HAVE to televise it, do it in silence! No interviews afterwards , no speculation on how people feel, just show the procession passing through then CUT!

c) and stop clapping...its not a time for applause...just SHUSH and stop chucking flowers! They were big roughy toughy soldiers who probably wore balaclavas to buy Mothers Day flowers so they wouldn't be seen so flowers really probably aren't their 'thing'

just my 2p worth!

Totally agree. The repats are starting to get - dare I say - a bit ghoulish. There's no written SOPs on how such an event should be executed, because until very recently - even during the Falklands conflict - the fallen remained on the battlefield.

I note this morning that the mayor of Wootten has worries about so many people attending what was a spontaneous local demonstration of respect.

For me, the tipping point was a journalist at the repat earlier in the week asking a grieving soldier: "what do you think of Gordon Brown?"

Pathetic.

Bingo! That's the one that finally tipped me over the edge.....

Right the repatriation of soldiers in this country is a disgrace, the public on the whole show absolutely no respect at all, and the people of WB have done a great job.

Here's my howevers....

However, it's not that long ago that the people now stamping their feet and throwing their dummies at the growing numbers traveling to show their respect where stamping their feet and throwing their dummies at the total lack of interest shown by anyone, the media had not yet caught site of WB standing still with quiet dignity. You cannot have it both ways. You either WANT the public to stand up and show support or not.

We all remember the comparison made between the Canadian repatriations and the British ones, theirs with the WHOLE route lined with people, firemen and policemen stood saluting, people waved flags and the NATION showed the WORLD that they were honoured not to have known these men and women but to have been represented by them. Our men and women where in a traffic jam.

There is no middle ground here. You can take the crowds, nutters, grief whores and all and know that there, amidst the madness there are many people standing still and with quiet dignity just as the Canadians have to do, and see it for what it is, a genuine public display of support to the WORLD that we here in this small island stand firmly behind our men and women.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Beebs x

Originally Posted by bigbird67

Nice one beebs!! I'm reading the thread on Wootten Bassett becoming a bit Princess Di, and not wanting to get my head caved in i've kept schtum but....

a) i'm torn on the subject of unconnected people travelling to repats. It's nice for people to show support but risks WB turning into a circus! Will all those people be attending Remembrance Day services? I think not!

b) Media....aaaargh! if they absolutely HAVE to televise it, do it in silence! No interviews afterwards , no speculation on how people feel, just show the procession passing through then CUT!

c) and stop clapping...its not a time for applause...just SHUSH and stop chucking flowers! They were big roughy toughy soldiers who probably wore balaclavas to buy Mothers Day flowers so they wouldn't be seen so flowers really probably aren't their 'thing'

just my 2p worth!

a) There is no risk now, WB is a circus, its horrible to watch, a meedja frenzy basically, running over the road to get the best shot, pushing through people to get the shot etc.

I would like to think those that are in attendance are the same people who do attend Remembrance day.

b) I don't want a running commentary of drivel, I don't want to know Joe Average is there because he just had to go, whilst he wipes away a tear, I don't give a shoite that Mrs Blogs has traveled for 23 hours,swam shark infested waters just to be there - name the fallen, watch, cut. (It actually annoyed me they talked over the boys coffins as they were taken from the aircraft, that should have been done in silence, with the bugler playing - perhaps their picture and name on screen, if they must - but the whole running commentary with "quotes" from friends and colleagues was all a bit crass.)

c) I couldn't understand the clapping, I had to get someone to explain it, its seemed so cheesy, like 'congratulations' type cheesy, it was just weird to see. As for the flower chucking - hmmm, looking at the people doing it, Im assuming it was friends/family (very young) perhaps this is how the younger generation express their feelings, who am I to tell someone its wrong (making the assumption it was friends etc), if its right for them, well...then its right!


~grumbles~ I know its a story and I know people like to know these things, with all the details, but there is a time and a place for those details, like the run up to the repatriation.

How long will it be before people become immune and it becomes just another 'why is that headlines' story?. Over exposure is not a good thing, lay it on thick, turn it into a meedja frenzy and people lose interest.

Edited to add:- plenty more places along the route to Oxford to go, if you MUST go, then why not those places? Could it be there is NO media interest there, not going to see yourself on the tv? WB residents are wonderful and I thank them for their support, everyone else, spread yourself out, leave WB to its residents.

Read this without getting all dusty eyed!

Beebs x

Do I think there should be silence - yes, without doubt.

But if someone who loved the person in the coffin wants to chuck a flower and clap then who am I to stop them?

The reason this last one was sooo big was because 8 of the fallen came home. Thats 8 lots of families, friends and colleagues who were in WB. If the mayor doesnt want people attending then perhaps he should have a word with the lads and ask them not to be killed all at the same time. There were 3 18 year old kids in that little line up. They have only been around in the Lady Di era.

There are alot of assumptions being made about the people attending. I am one of the people who gets the "call" when a repatriation is going to happen. I then ring another 10 who ring another 10. The repats used to be on set days depending on which theatre they were killed in. Does that make me a grief ghoul? Does the fact that I am a poppy girl who collects for the RBL also make me one? Do I attend Rememberance Day parades - without fail. Do I have family and friends who serve and have served - yes. Despite repeatedly asking for poppy people and knowing how many of you live in my area only two RPers have ever volunteered. The RBL asked Lyneham originally to let them know when a repat was going to take place. That is how this all began.

Do I think the media are out of control - hell yes. I think they should feck off but yet look at the debates that have begun because of their coverage. The questions regarding kit, etc. Surely that is good? But I dont feel they should cover the funerals of the fallen. That is purely for family and friends.

Am I about to be shot down in flames, quite possibly but its what I do and my reasons for doing so are personal.

In relation to ARRSE its almost as if unless you are serving/have served you are scum and should keep your nose out. Its a bloody scary place unless you are in with the clique which is so obvious to anyone viewing the boards. Families are not welcome over on the dark side or at least that is how it appears.

What do I think of Gordon Brown? I think he is a tw@t who lives on another planet.

Originally Posted by dizzybird

The questions regarding kit, etc. Surely that is good?

What do I think of Gordon Brown? I think he is a tw@t who lives on another planet.

:evil:

Given I have just read a news storyregarding the above I thought I would post these as it made me grind my teeth into dust.

General Sir Richard Dannatt said troops need more resources and he will present ministers with a "shopping list" to help protect troops from roadside bombs.

Gen Dannatt, who is retiring as Chief of General Staff later this month, argued that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) may have to use money allocated for other projects to finance the war in Afghanistan if it cannot convince the Treasury to provide additional resources.

He also said that with the US arguing for a "short-term uplift" in troop numbers, the UK may have to increase its own military presence.

He also said a reduction in troop numbers from 9,000 after the Afghan elections in August would be the "wrong thing to do".

A bloody start to July in Afghanistan has now seen the deaths of 16 UK service personnel and sparked a debate about whether operations in the country are being adequately financed.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has insisted that UK troops in Afghanistan are "properly equipped" and promised: "We will do whatever is necessary and what is right to equip our Armed Forces."

My bold.

Linky to story


So they are properly equipped BUT they'll do whatever is necessary and right to equip are Armed forces......... WTF!!

Well I know who I believe in this case and it isn't bloody Brown - who clearly given his last has no idea what he is talking about - still, no change there then!

RoD, way back when in the sands of time my lovely big brother was heading off into the sands without Body Armour or suitable foot wear.

Well being a resourceful lot we bought the kit needed, mainly on ebay I hasten to add. The foot wear was the item that actually struck a cord with me, why? it was army surplus stock the seller had bought from an army source clearing.

The boots my brother needed had been sold by the army the previous year to make room as their stores were being reduced in size and we had to buy them back.

Joke, total and utter joke!

Beebs x

PS he passed his Body Armour on before he came home.

Joke? I call it an insult.

Originally Posted by samm1551

Joke? I call it an insult.

Yes but how do we rectify the problem? One idea might be to means test child benefit and use the monies to pay for the equipment. I wonder how loud families charities would shout and who would support them?

Beebs x

I'd be quite happy to forfeit my child benefit and my £40 a month tax credits if I knew it would go directly to paying for their equipment.

My husband was out on Telic 1, and when he got all his kit for the tour he is on now, he thought he was in heaven, he couldn't believe he actually got brand new Body Armour still in the packaging, and desert uniform and boots. It was like Christmas for him!

And on a total other point, but Im gonna mention it anyway, one of the younger lads here found out my husband was on Telic 1 and asked to see some photos. He only has a handful, but he showed them to this lad who then went and told everyone my husband was a walt and didn't go to Iraq at all, because in all the photos he is in green kit. :roll:

I also didn't like the clapping at Wootton Bassett, but part of me thinks that if it's their families then they should be able to do what they like really, it is them that's grieving. I also don't like that it has turned into a media circus...but on the flip side, I sat and watched it.

I saw photos in the news today of a widow of one of the soldiers at his funeral. I thought that was awful and not something that is needed at all.

I'd rather not sacrifice my child benefit to pay for suitable clothes for army personnel - I'd prefer to clothe my own children with it and the government to get a grip of itself and channel appropriate cash into it!
As for the flowers, I rather liked it. Flowers are a symbol of peace and love (shyte that sounded way to hippie for me) and a stark contrast to the place they've just come from. I also agree that the flower chuckers were probably family and as such I think it's for them to do as they will.
Not all soldiers are roughy toughy 24/7. Mine is a fine balance and, am pleased to say, knows one end of a flower from the other!! ..... he might actually like to put it ito practice one day and bring some of the f*ckers home .... but still!!
My 2p done.
xx

I don't recall any time where you have been shouted down on there bbc for posting an opinion????

Originally Posted by mingmong

I don't recall any time where you have been shouted down on there bbc for posting an opinion????

There are several, but to be fair it's mostly been for giving a civvy opinion that was obviously not welcome.

But I think you need to read the first post on here about why this site was created, obviously there was an element who felt it was, rightly so, needed.

Many members here are members of ARRSE as well, most, however, aren't, they read, as I do, and resist replying as to do so would be to offer an opinion based purely on a different take of a subject/situation that isn't within the vein of the thread.

This thread is an amnesty thread, enabling those who feel they can offer a different perspective to an ARRSE topic a place to do so to allow it to be discussed from the non-military and mainly female point of view.

Beebs x

Dribble removed, its not I&B, its not about ARRSE.