Thread: exposed to "anti-military propaganda"

Hi all,

[sorry if this is on the wrong board, I didn't know where else to put it.]

Lately I had a lot of discussions/arguments with people who hold the view that being in the army/ supporting the forces is immoral and un-christian... (which is a big thing for me as I'm a devout Christian).
Now these people are not some crazed (religious, political or other) fanatics, (in which case it would have been easy to dismiss them and their arguments), but intelligent, educated and otherwise normal people...

For one, it bugged me that they outsmarted me. They had really good arguments for their case and I feel I couldn't stand my grounds against them.
But even worse is that they left me with a nagging voice of doubt, whispering in my ear: "what if they are right...?"

I guess what I'm asking you for is confirmation that my husband is doing a good and honourable job as soldier and that I'm justified in supporting him and the armed forces in general;
and I could do with some good convincing argument in support of it.

Thank you.
Anna

IMHO I think you need to ask yourself a question. Do YOU think your husband is doing a good and honourable job as soldier? Does he?

My guess would be that the answer to both these questions is 'Yes'. Pay no heed to what the peaceniks say. If it wasn't for men like your husband they wouldn't have the freedom to follow their religion.

If we all felt peaceful and happy towards each other then, no, we would not need the armed forces! However..... pigs could fly.... I wonder what they would say if the next car bomb or bus bomb blew up outside their house. Sorry, to sound so melodramatic. And I don't know greater advocates of peace that members of the armed forces!

We are so unbelievably lucky in this country - partly because we are an island - but also because our armed forces have been (and still are) incredibly good at what they do - against unbelievable odds. It would be brilliant if there was no war; no armed conflict; but there are always people who want to force you to change the way that we do things even if we are not harming anyone or inflicting our views on others. (I can think of a few religions to mention no names....); our armed forces particularly those on the front line have (to my way of thinking) a mentality that I can only admire - a warrior spirit that civilians, intelligent, educated or othewise simply do not understand. The fact that they are prepared to put their lives on the line to preserve something they feel is precious to us back home is something that I am in awe of. I wish it was unnecessary, but the human spirit is a funny thing and is made up of a myriad of admirable and less admirable qualities.

Apologies of warbling on, but in a nutshell I wish that there was no war; that we could live in peace with each other - that there was no 'againstness'. But there is, and our armed forces do an amazing job against huge odds, helping, despite what some think, to keep forces occupied overseas that would otherwise be far more interested in meddling with our affairs at home.

Hope this helps!!

I agree with the remarks so far. Like most folks I wish there could be no war. I wish my sons friends weren't dead and maimed, I wish my nephew was still alive, and that my granddad, father in law and son didn't have PTSD. I wish my granddaughters daddy wasn't going away and missing her first birthday.

This country is only free and democratic because we have excellent armed services, these so called Christians can only worship in freedom because people have died and fought for centuries to ensure that freedom.

Our servicemen are good people who are prepared to lay their lives on the line to uphold that tradition of democracy both here and in other countries.

There are many great warriors in the bible, did God condemn them or glorify in what they did in his name- Joshua, David to name just two.


Freedom has it's price. if you think what your man is doing is worthwhile then it is, if you believe he is a good man then he is

Tell me their arguments against, and I'll bet everyone of them can be countered.

I can also give you 100 reasons why religion in any form isn't 'all that' either.

It's the politicians that make the decisions. My other half didn't join The Army to go to war - he joined because when he left school he had limited options. He stays because he's good at it and because, if he does his job right, he can (hopefully) keep people safe. No one can tell me that's a bad thing or dishonourable. In my view, if these people were either educated or intelligent, they'd realise the same thing.

I'm sure, on this site of all sites, this has been said before. But if 'your friends' aren't willing to stand behind our troops, tell them they're welcome to stand in front of them.

Originally Posted by Joey

I'm sure, on this site of all sites, this has been said before. But if 'your friends' aren't willing to stand behind our troops, tell them they're welcome to stand in front of them.

I like that. I like that a lot!!

Originally Posted by bodger

Originally Posted by Joey

I'm sure, on this site of all sites, this has been said before. But if 'your friends' aren't willing to stand behind our troops, tell them they're welcome to stand in front of them.

I like that. I like that a lot!!

I like it too.

There's nothing that annoys me more than people, sat in the comfort of their own homes watching the latest reality tv tripe, having a go at the boys and girls that afford them that very freedom.

It's very simple - if they're apparently so educated and well informed, ask their opinion of the peace-keeping / peace-enforcing and other humanitarian interventions that the British Armed Forces have been involved in - hardly 'blood, guts and glory' stuff.

With regard to current operations, ask them to define their objections with reference to Rev William Paley - given that it could be argued that our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan are based on utilitarian principles, you should be in for some interesting answers!

Ultimately, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and other people's opinions only have superior validity if you choose to give them that status.

Originally Posted by DozyBint

It's very simple - if they're apparently so educated and well informed, ask their opinion of the peace-keeping / peace-enforcing and other humanitarian interventions that the British Armed Forces have been involved in - hardly 'blood, guts and glory' stuff.

With regard to current operations, ask them to define their objections with reference to Rev William Paley - given that it could be argued that our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan are based on utilitarian principles, you should be in for some interesting answers!

Ultimately, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and other people's opinions only have superior validity if you choose to give them that status.

I would have to add to that... If they feel so uneasy about a military presence in Afghanistan, how do they like the idea of Pakistan (with its nuclear capability) falling to the Taliban?

DozyBint, I thought your post was incredibly eloquent! I definitely couldn't put it better.

Anna, just one small thing, is it not rather rude of all these 'educated people' to disrespect your husband's chosen profession to you? No-one I know would dream of voicing such opinions to me, even if they thought it. Not because they'd want to wrap me in cotton wool, but because it is actually rather thoughtless and insensitive. If I had a friend, or even an acqaintance, whose husband was a Banker, I wouldn't start spouting some sort of vitriolic, self-righteous, diatribe about how Bankers were immoral, mercenary etc etc (and I'm not saying I do think this, I'm just picking another 'controversial' profession as an example) as I'd clearly offend them!

Thank you all so much for your replies -it means a lot!

I totally agree with what you guys said and it strengthens me in my belief that my husband (together with all British and German soldiers) are indeed doing a good and honourable job!
Putting one's life and health on the line for what one holds precious is pretty much the most honourable thing a person can do!

Yes, living in a war-free world is what we all dream about -and that's the thing, isn't it?
My hubby said if all nations of the entire world sat around a table agreeing to peace, he'd be the first to throw his rifle in the fire, but alas a lot of people do not want peace and until then he'd keep his rifle and protect the freedom of people.

I still believe that there is no (invincible) contradiction between being in the forces or supporting them and being a Christian -granted that it is no blind support but that one remains critical and conscientious.

@Dozy Bint: Thank you for pointing out Rev. William Paley to me, I had not heard of him before so I quickly "wikied" him. As to the utilitarian principle -some (christian) people argue against it:

Despite all this, utilitarianism must be recognized as a completely unacceptable moral system from a Christian perspective. In the first place, utilitarianism could easily be used to violate the rights of an individual or a minority for the benefit of the majority.

The utilitarian calculus used in both cases described above is neat and precise, but it is also completely repugnant from a Christian perspective. A Christian must hold that each and every individual has value and worth in and of himself. Even the preservation of the public order cannot be used as an excuse to treat individuals unjustly or to sacrifice their most fundamental rights. For these reason’s a utilitarian approach must be rejected as a foundation for a Christian ethical system.

-But IMO I think they deliberately misunderstand/ twist the idea of utilitarian principle in regard of our armed forces in conflict.

Best wishes to you all.
Anna

Originally Posted by Anna

But IMO I think they deliberately misunderstand/ twist the idea of utilitarian principle in regard of our armed forces in conflict.

Got it in one! That's the brilliant thing about religion and philosophy - you can interpret / twist any argument to suit any situation. Just don't let them brow-beat you with alleged intellectual superiority - their opinions are after all merely opinions.