Thread: Impartial thoughts and opinions wanted

Am a regular poster but for PERSEC I’ve name changed.


Wouldn’t normally do this but the opinions of people who don’t know me, understand the lifestyle and have no emotional investment in me would be welcome.


I am due to give birth for the first time at the end of December. My local hospital is Furness General which has been in the press rather a lot recently. Up until yesterday I had made the decision to give birth at Furness General (FG) despite the bad press based upon talking to Mothers who have given birth there recently and local gossip. The local opinion has been that up until 2008 FG was dire but that since the spate of new born deaths the unit had pulled its socks up and things had improved. I have since found out that not one of the midwives being investigated has been suspended or reprimanded, no changes in the unit have been made and that an eighth (allegedly avoidable) new born death has occurred very recently. The other hospitals in the area are members of the same trust, have very poor reputations and the closest one is over 45 minutes away.


My parents are not an option as they are away over the weeks either side of my due date. The in laws are not an option as they are dealing with cancer at the moment.


The OH’s job is due to reach a critical stage around my due date but this isn’t set in stone as they rely on a 3rd party so I can’t be certain that he will be available to drive me to a distant hospital whilst I’m in labour. There are a couple of older RN wives locally that I could ask to help but if I can avoid involving relative strangers in something so personal then I would prefer to plus there’s the unpredictability of when I’m actually going to go into labour and I can’t ask people to put their lives on hold waiting for my child to decide to make an appearance. My OH’s presence in the labour ward would be good but let’s face it isn’t necessary and his job does come first particularly at the moment.



I tend to make decisions based on fact, never what I read in the press hence the local research but I’m now starting to question my decision based on this new information that’s come to light.


To those of you in the medical profession: What questions can I ask and to whom in order to find out what’s really going on at Furness General?


To those of you who are Mothers: What would you do?

Barrow maternity hospital: Inquiry into 8th death at baby unit | Mail Online


BBC News - Police investigate Furness General Hospital baby deaths


Furness General: Cumbria hospital 'hides' maternity death rate - Telegraph


Police probe four baby deaths: Missing records in maternity unit where two mothers also lost lives | Mail Online


Maternity ward in police investigation could be forced to close | Society | guardian.co.uk


etc etc

I can understand that you'd be a bit concerned. Have you thought about the possibility of having the baby at home? That way you'd avoid the hospital, hopefully, completely?

When I had my first Mr B was languishing in Bosnia at the time and I had absolutely no plans to have anyone with me when I had her. The hospital was 45 minutes away anyway so it was always going to be a bit of a drive. To be honest, I don't think I planned anything very well at all! When my waters broke I rang the hospital to ask them what they wanted me to do. They told me to go straight in. When I said I'd jump in the car and pop over they threatened me with an ambulance so I made up some cock and bull story about a friend taking me in. Anyway, I jumped in the car all the same! I was lucky though, I wasn't having massive disastrous contractions and the level crossing stayed up so all was well. Just before I left my Mum rang to make sure I was OK so as soon as she heard what was going on she raced up and met me at the hospital. To be honest, I really didn't need her there and I'd happily have done it without her. Anyway, if I hadn't managed to drive myself, I would have booked a taxi or, worst case scenario got an ambulance.

Option A - taxi?
Option B - take those older wives up on their offer. They'll happily do it, I'm sure. I know I would and I'm a miserable old cow.
Option C - baby at home?
Option D - use the possibly suspect hospital?

I "planned" for all my babies to be born at Salisbury Hospital,

First son was born at Norfolk & Norwich I was visiting my parents!
Second son was born at Norfolk & Norwich my MQ in Tidders was being modernised and Mr Boots was orf to Kenya.
Third son was born at Salisbury.


No amount of planning works.
I'd arrange taxi to nearest maternity/birthing unit, look up the availability of a doula?

Good luck!

friend of mine had hers at home couple of years ago- she is now expecting 2nd baby in December (she is 42) - do you want me to ask her for advice re home birth? She does yoga and said that helped and was about 5 hours start to finish (sorry I'm not a mother no idea of the details!!!).

Hello.
Sorry you're having such a dilemma over probably the most important event of your life so far.

I can't help regarding the Hospital etc. I can however recommend a home birth. I always wanted one with my first but family members put me off and steered me away saying I couldn't possibly know how the labour would go etc, so I had my first in hospital. I had a straight forward very quick labour.

With my second I had a planned home birth and have to say right from the very first contact I had with the midwife who came to confirm I was in established labour I saw a HUGE difference.

In hospital the midwives tend to examine you to see if you're in labour and offer pain relief and then leave you in peace until things start to get going, at home the midwife checked me out- confirmed the baby was on its way and sat drinking tea with me and other family members who were there. I was under constant un-intrusive supervision. When labour was starting to really get going another midwife was called and I had more care than I could have asked for.

Being at home you have the freedom of having who ever you want with you but I can honestly say I would have been just as happy to have given birth on my own with just the midwives present. If I ever have another baby, hospital will not be an option unless there is any reason given why I can't have an home birth.

I think its worth considering.

I'm sorry I can't help with your choices regarding the hospital but I feel its very important that you go into labour feeling confident that you're going to get the best care available. I am sure there are many other great midwives at the hospital in question.

Bodger - A home birth does appeal and would solve the issue of having to choose between one hospital that appears to have the worst maternity unit in the country and relying on taxis/strangers to get me to an only slightly less dodgy hospital potentially 45 minutes or more away. There is a shortage of midwives in the area (can't blame them!) and with this being my first birth plus being under Consultant care (only necessary for the first 22 weeks and saw him once), I wonder if I'll get told to poke it if I ask for a home birth. No harm in asking and it would also save me from being stuck on a post natal ward with over 20 other women and 2 midwives trying to look after all of them. Slightly concerned that having never given birth before, I have no idea how I'll cope with the pain. I think I have a high pain threshold but could be exposed a total woss who shrieks for an epidural before the end of the first contraction and of course that is not an option with a home birth.

Boots - Yeah, I've realised I can't "plan" anything. I just want to know if anyone has any other ideas or solutions that avoid me having to go to such an appalling maternity unit, sometimes it's difficult to see the wood for the trees and I could be (probably am) missing something very obvious. Had never heard of a doula but a quick look shows that one might be part of a solution to the midwife shortage if they ever work together so thank you for that, will start the research.

Poppy - if you could ask your friend for her thoughts/advice on a home birth, that would be great and very kind. I think that the more opinions the better. Thank you.

ER - That's very interesting and reassuring. Thanks.

They CAN'T tell you to poke it if you request home birth, they have to give it consideration. And there;'s nothing to stop you hiring a private midwife either

Personally I would steer clear of the hospital. I'd heard bad things about the hospital I had my 2nd daughter in, and thought it couldn't possibly be that bad. It really was, and I would have never have forgiven myself if something bad had happened to her.

I wasn't even offered a home brith, but having spoken to alot of my friends who have had them I'd definitely go for that in hindsight. Ask your midwife, if you're no longer under a consultant then there should be no reason for you not to have a home birth.

The only thing I WOULD say about home birth is to, by all means, have your birth plan BUT be ready to go to the hospital if your midwife suggests it. If they say they want you to go, its because they know they aren't geared up to deal with how your labour is going. Stay open minded, hopefully you'll know your midwife well enough to trust her.

Have a look at the aims website

Home Birth

I had our little one five weeks ago, and we were in the very real position of being in a difficult place!

Firstly the hospital - the media and the rumour mill can be a horrible place - I know, I work with it from time to time! For every bad story there will be a good one, and frankly you will rarely hear the good ones. Be sure that there WILL be an internal investigation ongoing, and the overall care service will be being watched like a hawk. Even at the good hospitals, like the one that I gave birth to little Rosebud in, always has good and bad tales to tell.

Next - we had to take a taxi to the hospital. I'm the only driver in the family and with no other family anywhere near, it was the only option. You'll only be offered an ambulance if there are complications or you're in advanced labour. Try to find a friendly taxi firm in advance and stick a large amount of money in a safe but accessible place to pay for it. A 25 minute journey for me at 2300 wasn't cheap!

Birthing partners - I had two, my OH if he was there or able to get back from sea and another family member who lived miles away in case OH wasn't there. In the end, both turned up and I'm glad they did! Babies rarely arrive on the due date and we planned for a five week window when the little one would arrive at any time. In the end, she was not only early but an emergency case so as they say, the best laid plans...

Home birthing wasn't offered to me because of underlying health issues but frankly the way it worked out for us, I would've been in hospital anyway.

I can't say I had any form of relationship with any midwife. During my pregnancy I must have seen at least ten different ones! So much for the continuation of care. In hospital it was a completely different team too (except the one who looked after me the most when I really needed it turned out to be the best of the bunch).

All of our birthing stories and experiences are different. This was our first and will be our last. We had some real ups and downs even with a very good hospital. But we all came through and our little Rosebud is, according to the Health Visitor, 'thriving'.

I must say though that in my experience RN welfare were a complete joke, but the NFF were brilliant. I hope your OH's management chain are sympathetic and pull the stops out for the both of you.

You could hire a doula which is a paid birthing partner, my friend is training to be one so I don't know much about it, they are very popular in the USA and canada and increasingly so over here.

Home births are lovely, I had one and out of all 4 births it was the best, but I had to agree to go to the hospital if the midwives said I needed to go.

Here is a link if you want to know more:

Doula UK | The non-profit association of doulas in the UK

Originally Posted by WhiteRose

You'll only be offered an ambulance if there are complications or you're in advanced labour.

Not true in all cases (me being hard evidence!) but you definitely can't rely on it.

Originally Posted by bodger

Not true in all cases (me being hard evidence!) but you definitely can't rely on it.

There, you see, that's how the NHS works - we were told it was a no go, others not so!

Ah, for a consistent approach

Consistency?! You have got to be kidding. I get the offer of an ambulance (didn't take it as it goes) but didn't get fed for 5 days. I bet you got food you lucky bugger!

OMG, just the sort of story you really don't need in the media before you go to a hospital. I feel for you as its unnecessary stress......

What would I do? I would either go for a home birth or go into labour in your nearest John Lewis..... apparently you get £250 in vouchers.

TLC x

Originally Posted by namechanged

Bodger - A home birth does appeal and would solve the issue of having to choose between one hospital that appears to have the worst maternity unit in the country and relying on taxis/strangers to get me to an only slightly less dodgy hospital potentially 45 minutes or more away. There is a shortage of midwives in the area (can't blame them!) and with this being my first birth plus being under Consultant care (only necessary for the first 22 weeks and saw him once), I wonder if I'll get told to poke it if I ask for a home birth. No harm in asking and it would also save me from being stuck on a post natal ward with over 20 other women and 2 midwives trying to look after all of them. Slightly concerned that having never given birth before, I have no idea how I'll cope with the pain. I think I have a high pain threshold but could be exposed a total woss who shrieks for an epidural before the end of the first contraction and of course that is not an option with a home birth.



ER - That's very interesting and reassuring. Thanks.

I was expecting a battle to get my home birth and was shocked when they said 'OK' right away.

Like BigBird says, you've got to keep your options open and be prepared to go to Hospital should the situation arise and my midwives made me aware of that at all times. But the level of care I got was amazing. My first birth in hospital was good- no real problems with the staff etc.

Many midwives I have spoken to prefer home births, there is much less medical intervention and I didn't feel in a rush to be at a certain stage of labour by a certain time and risk being 'sent home' until labour was established.

If a home birth is an interesting idea to you, talk to your midwife about it and see what your options are. Re: pain relief, it is limited but being in your own surroundings does wonders I think...and you're not contracted to have the baby at home- if you start to feel like its getting too much you can always opt to go in to hospital.

I don't want to sound like some hippy chick who's shoving the idea of a home birth down your throat but it was such a positive experience for me (and many others in my area as the midwives have become very pro home birth for the past few years).

Ok, I have no children therefore can not advise you from a mothers point of view. However, I work in the NHS and know that if a department within a hospital is found to be endangering patients it will be closed. They would not continue to operate as normal. If concerns have been raised but not deemed necessary to close the department rest assured that they will be being watched very carefully and will be on 'best behaviour' to prove that they are competent.
Also, as WR said the media are bloody good at putting the bad stories out there, and you will never hear about Mrs Smith who has happily had 10 children there etc etc.
Having said that I think you need to have faith in where you are going as it's such an important time for you. If you won't feel comfortable going to FG you should go further afield, asking one of the wives to help out or getting a taxi. If you are under consultant care and have no other form of transport you may be eligible for an ambulance, but don't bank on it as they may be tied up with 999 calls. A home birth does sound like a potentially good option though if they give you the ok.
Like I said, I can't give you a mothers opinion but hope the general info helps.

Originally Posted by bodger

Consistency?! You have got to be kidding. I get the offer of an ambulance (didn't take it as it goes) but didn't get fed for 5 days. I bet you got food you lucky bugger!

Well, it was described as 'food'. It was largely inedible.

I agree with what Kaz_xx said in that you need to have faith in where you are going. Are there any midwife led birthing units around there? I had a home birth last October (can't believe she's nearly one!) so if you want to know anything, ask away.

Having been automatic not manual with all three of mine, a home birth wasn't an option.. but I don't think I'd fancy all the mess to clear up....